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Talk:Suwako Moriya

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"It is said that her only direct descendant was Sanae, although Sanae didn't even know it until the events of Subterranean Animism." Where did it say that last part?

Look at the setting text about her of MoF:
... After all, even the closest human to Suwako, Sanae, doesn't know much about her. ... Sanae is currently Kanako's Shrine Maiden, but the reason she can create miracles is because she is Suwako's distant descendant... she does not seem to understand why there are two gods within her own shrine...
This phrases show that the clan of Suwako might well be associated with Sanae, and that she knew the existance of two gods at least, but didn't know even of brief background of Suwako. Someone who are saying Sanae knew it by SA after MoF is maybe setting his/her own setting, because it seems not to be revealed in SA. --Masuo64 14:48, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

@, who is the other possible non-virgin? TheTrueBlue 07:53, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Probably Shinki, since Alice is theorized to be her daughter. Luceid 16:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't the term be "probable non-virgin", rather than "possible non-virgin"? It's not like there's no chance at all of any of the other characters being non-virgins - those two are just the only ones with known descendants (although I think there's many other more plausible explanations for the Shinki/Alice thing than the community's main belief). 07:55, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

It's unknown to us how a son/daughter of goddess is born from her. If "non-virgin" means "having the experience of sex with male", we can't conclude which she is, because it's possible, due to no description, that gods made by ZUN get pregnant after sex with female, or that a physical contact creates some god without no sex. (In ancient Japanese myth and folklore, there are many cases of god's appearance because of touching an object and bleeding.) However, this is most important, I suppose; it's more natural to think she is virgin from her cuteness! --Masuo64 09:13, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
The only reason ZUN would ever say that Suwako was a non-virgin was if he wanted to hurt or troll his fan-base. Virgin birth is EXTREMELY common in all world mythologies. The creation of life is only necessarily sexual for baser creatures. The grandfather of Moctezuma Xocoyotzin (known by the Spanish genocidists as Montezuma) was conceived when his great-grandfather threw a precious gem into the garden of his great-grandmother, etc. Suwako IS a virgin. Certainly, all the Touhou characters that have been playable characters after EoSD have been virgins. It just offends all aesthetic sensibilities and expectations given the moe and kawaii subcultures' characteristics to even suggest that they aren't. TheTrueBlue 12:34, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Anyway, this is the fact that there is no official comment about how gods appears into this world, and about her virgin (maybe ZUN doesn't think about it because the thought about it doesn't make the world fantastic or carefree), and that the majority may prefer her virgin from their taste, and from their analogy from other characters. --Masuo64 15:19, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
1. The two of you have no evidence on her being a virgin.
2. Neither does the "Suwako is not a virgin" faction have any evidence of her not being one(species other than human).
So jumping at the throat of anon here is irate, not to mention stupid when being on a wiki that strives for a certain minimum of objectivity. The question here is the use of "probable" vs. "possible" considering official sources have said jack shit about the matter. And yes it should be "probable," but considering we have Shinki as well we have a case of "Character A is Nth character with feature X" so I'll remove it.--Umhyuk 19:25, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
The evidence is that it would make no fucking sense if she were. No point jumping at our throats (to use your own stupid expression) for being reasonable human beings. Are you on your period or something? TheTrueBlue 19:58, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
"Only possible" implies that it is impossible that any other character other than the two could have had intercourse, it is highly improbable however. See the difference? If not I can't help you.--Umhyuk 20:20, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me the real distinction with Suwako is that she has something which seems, on the surface, like concrete evidence that she's not a virgin. This is not the case with any other character, even though, strictly speaking, many of them could easily have had sex at any point and indeed there are some who realistically would be likely to have, given their life histories. (Of course, this is Touhou, so realism is pretty much irrelevant, but for the sake of argument.) Certainly not with Shinki since her being Alice's mother is 100% pure fanon.
However, the evidence is not proof due to the possibility of virgin birth and the fact that Suwako is a god who may not need to procreate like a human woman at all. So of how much interest is this? In a sense she can be considered more likely than most to not be a virgin, since fallible evidence is more indicative than no evidence at all, but this isn't a trial. If the idea is prevalent enough, like with a lot of other fanon, it may be worth reincluding in the form, "Many fans take the fact that Sanae is her descendant as proof that Suwako isn't a virgin, though others have pointed out..." Otherwise, it's irrelevant.
Still has nothing to do with Shinki, though. I was on the verge of undoing that edit for being based on fanon before I looked at this here talk page. 21:56, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
Many Japanese gods procreate, and many don't. I've read a book saying that in Shintou mythology the object which gods touched physically has potential to change into god. So our common sense about biology doesn't make a certain conclusion whether or not Suwako is virgin. Since it's nonsense to decide how certain (probable, possible, etc.) she is from the insufficient official description, "Sanae is her descendant", we can't say which takes advantage. I think the data and neutral editing is just wanted, so I would prefer "Sanae is actually Suwako's descendant, but it is unknown whether Suwako has physical experiences of loving with someone and acting wife's or mother's role, because there are many Japanese gods without them." --Masuo64 06:03, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

The current lack of information concerning such dubious speculation works well, and keep it is fine. TheTrueBlue 13:21, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Her other ablity

Well I believe we should put this, since she had ability to uses curses and to summon the Mishaguji, the curse gods. Just Like Reimu who had the ability to call her gods. Dandan550 12:52, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

It might be reasonable. For example, Sakuya has "knife manipulation" for it. But I've assumed that the item should be filled with some abilities of character which is refered to in the sentences of text, in ZUN's setting text, though. --Masuo64 15:24, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
It was list on her skills in Hisoutensoku. -Dandan550 04:17, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

「ケロちゃん」 and「あーうー」

Just in case anyone is unsure, perhaps doing a Google search of those two phrases would be good for confirming these names for Suwako. Does anyone disagree with these two monikers?-- 03:52, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

ケロちゃん first arrives on the name of Spell Card "ケロちゃん風雨に負けず", and "あーうー" is from her sentences in Reimu Route of MoF. I don't oppose the opinion that the memes came to be loved more and more after the song was released, but it must be needed at least that it wasn't generated by a supporter of Suwako. --masuo64 Talk 06:14, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
Eeeeh.... that just shows how little I know about Touhou... orz -- 15:44, September 14, 2010 (UTC)


Well, if Sanae is a descendant of Suwako, then, what is Kanako, is Kanako however related to them or not?

XFujiwaraNoMokoux 20:13, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

For your question, no, they're not related at all. Kanako is a god of Yamato that invaded Kingdom Moriya with the puropse to unify all the kingdoms and create a country named "Japan" . Where Kanako was victorious due the difference between her strenght with Suwako. If you want more detailed info read the Great Suwa War ;D.--MasterCamilo113 20:53, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

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